Agenda item

The ‘Health of the Borough’ review is being conducted thematically . This session will concentrate on Financial Health and particularly look at the following issues:

·  The availability of banks and credit unions

• The role of payday loan and pawn shops
• Financial awareness in the borough

Written evidence is being contributed by :

·  Councillor Ian Wingfield, Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Communities, Employment and Business

• Southwark Citizens Advice Bureaux
• Southwark Living Streets
• Walworth Society
• Southwark Youth Council

Presentations will be done by:

• Councillor Stephanie Cryan, Financial Inclusion Deputy Cabinet Member
• Dr Ruth Wallis , Director of Public Health

A range of partners have been invited to attend and give verbal evidence.

This session will be conducted using the open fishbowl format; which means anybody who has knowledge, skills or experience to contribute to the theme will be invited to contribute to the discussion. A paper is enclosed explaining more on the fishbowl format.

This section of the meeting will be audio recorded.

5.1  The vice chair, Councillor David Noakes, opened the meeting by explaining the chair was delayed. He invited everybody to introduce themselves.

5.2  He then asked the project manager, Julie Timbrell, to describe the fishbowl format of the meeting. She explained that this format’s aim is to promote discussion and learning on a topic between participants, many of whom will have expert knowledge, but from varying viewpoints.  There is an inner circle and an outer circle, with participants moving between each. The role of people in the inner circles is to debate the topic, while the role of people in the outer circle is to be ‘active listeners’. There are 8 chairs in the inner circle, with one left free. After contributing for a while people in the inner circle move to the outer circle, and someone from the outer circle moves to the inner circle. Everyone present is encouraged to actively contribute.  Contributions can include asking questions, commenting on the topic or giving information. There will be two presentations to set the scene from the Director of Public Health and the Financial Inclusion Deputy Cabinet Member. The meeting is being recorded.

5.3  Dr Ruth Wallis, Director of Public Health, gave a presentation, which is attached.

5.4  Councillor Stephanie Cryan, Financial Inclusion Deputy Cabinet Member, spoke about the credit problems faced by residents, who need a good credit ratting to get decent, reasonably priced credit. As well as a rise in high street lenders with high priced interest there is an increase in illegal lenders - gangsters basically. The council is looking to stop the spread of pay day loan shops and betting shops through Licensing and in particular stop the co-location as there is evidence that one feeds the other. The council is promoting universal financial wellbeing and one of the ways this is being achieved is through encouraging the opening of bank accounts and another way is by encouraging school to teach financial literacy. Southwark Council’s hardship scheme makes loans to help people - more people are applying to this fund and there is an increase in the number of eligible applications, which demonstrates a growing trend of increasing hardship. There are links between mental health and financial health. A recent Which? report on mental distress gave a wide range of scores for Southwark. She advised that it would be good to have a debt advice set up in doctors’ surgeries - there used to be such a service which proved useful, however the funding was pulled post the national election.

5.5  The chair, Councilor Rebecca Lury, then invited other people to join the discussion. Sally Causer, Southwark Citizen Advice Bureau (CAB) commented that the use of enforcement agents vastly increases costs - bailiffs can increase court costs by double, for example from £200 to £400. However, since February, the council has brought the service in house, which is very good.

5.6  Councillor Chris Gonde explained that he works with Southwark’s Credit Union, which is the third biggest in country, with 20,000 members. He commented that Wonga has very high interest rates – people are going there as they have nowhere else to turn. Many people don't have bank accounts and this is very worrying as we have an increasingly cashless society. Someone asked him what we could do to promote Credit Unions and he responded he would urge all the councillors to become members to be better enable young people to join. There is also a Credit Union Day which the council and community could help promote. In Ireland 70% of the community have accounts.

5.7  Jeremy Leach commented that there is strong support for a credit union to have a branch on the Walworth Road. The location is very important, so if the Walworth Road is lucky enough to get a branch he requested a really good location. He said that there is concern about the concentration of pay day loan & betting shops and there have been a number of campaigns focused on Licensing - 10% of businesses are payday loan or betting shops on Walworth Road. Living Streets contributed to the recent scrutiny review on this – he added that he understood that it is hard for the local authority to influence this.  He added that the Walworth Road Society want to support a strategy to keep local business on the local road as that keeps money flowing locally.

5.8  Sally Causer commented that a few years ago the main debt issues CAB  were dealing with was unsecured debt, however CAB are now dealing with increased levels of debt and clients not being able to afford rent, food and utilities. The welfare benefit changes have caused enormous hardship. People in the 50s age group, often men, are the hardest hit. They are often not in position to change their position and frequently subject to benefit difficulties, such as bedroom tax and delays in disability benefit. She picked up on the suggestion to have advice in doctors’ surgeries and said she really supports this. Often the people the CAB see are not those least able to access income maximization and debt advice. The CAB also feed evidence in nationally into CAB campaigns on high interest pay day loans and there is national campaign working to persuade banks to make small loans of a couple of hundred which they are often reluctant to do.

5.9  A committee member said that he would support a low rent council building or the Walworth Town Hall complex to have a Credit Union and would also support a council drive to give the Credit Union a higher profile. He said he did not have an account but he was impressed by the figures, and agreed it seems like a great idea to give debt advice in surgeries. Given the new set up, whereby local doctors’ surgeries are grouped in localities around a hub, he suggested that one in each hub could be pursued as more realistic than each surgery. He would be interested to know more about financial distress and it’s on impact on different age groups, following on from the comments by CAB.  Sally Causer offered to provide more information

5.10  An officer from Rightfully Yours referred to a tabled document, attached, and said the majority of clients her service sees are disabled or vulnerable in some way. Disabled people are now making an application annually, and then having to wait nearly a year to receive the outcome and money, and then the cycle starts again. This means there are many people living below income for much of the time. She added her support to their  being  debt and income maximization advice in doctor surgeries - quite often the problems that happen are caused by medical crisis so welfare advice being provided there could provide the right support at the right time and also support GPs to provide the right evidence. The Rightfully Yours Team could also do planning with people who were getting better. Holistic support to families and carers is also very important and Rightfully Yours can help with this. She explained that they do not give debt advice so the Rightfully Yours teams are very grateful for CAB’s advice. Getting financial advice before things go wrong is very important. She reported that the Rightfully Yours team has worked with the CAB on welfare reform events. She agreed with Sally Causer that the over 50s are often in a very difficult situation.

5.11  A committee member highlighted the index of multiple deprivation and estates, and the particular impact on children.  She added that people will have seen from Allen Millburn’s recent report that the gap between rich and poor is growing and socially mobility reducing. Projects like Sure Start help to overcome this by helping those most in need and bringing people together.

5.12  A committee member commented that council units are few and far between on the Walworth Road to site a Credit Union. He said that in his  day job with a union they  are seeking to unionize staff in betting shops and places like Wonga as staff frequently have terrible conditions and are forced to use loans themselves and can't whistleblow. As a betting shop user he added that the  culture has changed and now more about machines and an intense betting cycle, whereas before the emphasis was often on betting on horses etc and there was quite a lot of community engagement that used to take place. He voiced concern that indebtedness is being driven not by luxury lending but by people needing the basics.

5.13   A member commented that affordable council homes promote financial well-being. Street markets food quality can be poor, however the food is cheap – metro and small shops are often much more expensive. There is an evidence of a good return on investment on welfare advice, for every one pound spent, five pounds is saved. If this is not given in a timely way people end up in crisis - homeless , malnutrition , etc

5.14  Jeremy Leach said he would like to see local centers and shopping parades, and said they are great for keeping money in the borough and cheap food. People should be no less than 5 minutes from a shopping centre. Unfortunately urban regeneration can drive out local shops .He added that active travel is not only healthier and it also drives the cost of travel down; it is much cheap to cycle and walk. Liven Street (near Liverpool Grove) has really helped provide a good example and he supports the councils commitment to a 20 mile an hour borough.

5.15  A committee member commented that the review needs to consider both debt, income and also think about expenditure. It is concerning that small shops are being pushed out by the mini supermarkets which are less good value. He said that he has seen regeneration pushed out local shops and residents and this is also because the rents in new units are prohibitively high. He added that he represents Cathedral and Riverside, where there is deprivation.

5.16  The Financial Inclusion Deputy Cabinet Member commented that the council are promoting Business's Improvement Districts,  which support the small business that people want, and the council  are also  thinking of holding financial well-being meetings at community councils